***This Transcript Is Auto-Generated***

[00:00:00] On today's episode . I sat down to have a conversation with my dear friend, Alicia Lunsford, who is a sex educator for parents. She does cover a wide range of ages and topics in her business and content creation. But today, specifically, we worked through her five by five resource for toddler parents, which is the top five body safety rules to teach your child by age five. I know that this topic is near and dear to [00:00:30] many of you listening. So, if you want to have a resource in your hand to either follow through while you're listening to this podcast or to remind yourself. Of the content later. You can grab her free PDF. 

Download at the link in the show notes. Enjoy.

Acoustic guitar chords

Alisha, I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. This is a topic that I have personally been [00:01:00] pretty passionate about since becoming a parent myself, and I know that it's one That can feel really, really big for us as parents, especially when our kids are young and we're like, are we, are we protecting them all of those questions that can like come into our mind and it can feel really confusing and difficult to navigate.

So first of all, I just, I think it's amazing that this is the work that you do, and I'm really excited to be able to provide you as a resource for the audience of this podcast. So I wanted to [00:01:30] say, thank you. First off. 

Yeah, thank you for like having me. I'm, I am pumped to be here. So I really, really appreciate just the time for to, to sit with me and like, talk about this stuff.

I could talk about this stuff for days. So, I 

know. Absolutely. First off, I'd love to provide an opportunity for the audience get to know you a little bit better so can you tell me and everyone listening. About what it is that you do and a little bit about [00:02:00] how, how you got into this particular, , niche in the coaching world.

. So, my name is Alicia Lunsford. My business is Sexpert Parenting, , and I am a sex positive parenting consultant and support. So basically what that boils down to is that I help parents talk to their kids about bodies and sex and sexuality and all the things like little nooks and crannies that go along with that.

And I also work with parents to So many of us were [00:02:30] raised in like a very conservative household and background, and it, which kind of comes along with a lot of internal shame and some barriers around that. So I help parents sort of navigate that as well before they talk to their kids. So it's not like trickling down, but my background is, is exactly that.

I grew up in an incredibly conservative household, and when I When I went on to have my kids, I've got two kiddos, I [00:03:00] had no idea how to have this conversation with them. I a few years before I had my kiddos, I was sexually assaulted, so I had some triggers of my own that I didn't want to really, that I, that I didn't realize were such until all of a sudden I had to have these conversations with my kids.

And so basically I just dove like head first into this world and parenting. And I just really, really got passionate about, all of the [00:03:30] really cool things that when you talk to your kids about. bodies and sex, like, it, it opens up so much, like a whole new world. And, it helps with their safety.

It helps the, like the entire community. It helps with their own, like, confidence and, and body confidence and kids who are, anybody who has, anybody who's had quality sex education, those communities and those societies have [00:04:00] less, they've got, the rates are much fewer on. Teen Pregnancies, Abortions, Sexual Assaults, STD, Transmissions, like all of it.

So it just, I just dug into it and I think it's so important and now I just, I can't stop talking about it and helping parents with it, navigate it. 

Yeah, yeah. I love it too and I love that conversation too. Also was it was really important to me when my daughter was born to have conversations around body safety and growing up in a very [00:04:30] conservative kind of household.

Yeah, and there was. You know, impacts of sexual abuse in, in my home growing up. So I felt that, and these conversations were challenging to navigate, but so, so important. And I think that it's worth saying, I know I've experienced this myself too, and anyone who has grown up in an environment that. You know, feeling comfortable in their own body or safe in their own body or knowing how to keep their body safe [00:05:00] and feeling like they had permission to do that and tools to do that and confidence to do that.

If you didn't grow up with that, it can be really, really scary to start. Out this journey. So I think it, just as, as you shared too, I think it's worthwhile acknowledging that at the beginning and saying that, Hey, if you're feeling that way, listening to this, like that's okay. And something I love about Alicia, having known Alicia for years is how safe she's made me feel to be honest that, Hey, this can be really hard.

These conversations can be tough amongst [00:05:30] parents and. Once you start to like, get more comfortable with it yourself, it's not quite so tough to have the conversations with your kids. And it's not as scary always in reality as it feels like in your head. That's been my experience. 

Right, and I think it's like, just exactly what you said, like it's, it's important to recognize that this is uncomfortable stuff that we're having conversations about.

And you are absolutely not alone. If you're uncomfortable in this, [00:06:00] like pretty much every parent I work with is uncomfortable. There's some, so some sort of like sense of shame. There's some sense of of triggers or something going on. That's, that's, that's Because so much of our generation was raised in like a purity culture or like a shame based if you touch yourself, a puppy's going to die kind of culture.

And that's something we all kind of have to get over and work through so that we don't pass that down to our kids. So it's not, it's certainly not [00:06:30] uncommon, like that is one of the most common things for parents to struggle with. in these conversations is their own uncomfort. 

Yeah, totally. And I think that this kind of leads into our topic for the day.

A lot of times as parents, we get really ahead of ourselves and we're like way down the line and we're, we start to get overwhelmed by all of the things that we want to talk to our kids about, have our kids feel certain ways about, or you know, and I think that, you know, Sometimes we want to share, like, our values with our kids, all those things.

And that, like, there's not [00:07:00] anything implicitly wrong with any of that, but sometimes we get really far down the line. And we're talking about toddlers here. But that doesn't mean that we can't be taking the kind of baby steps in the early, early days that can be helpful. Like, can support our kids to reap all of the benefits that you were, you were speaking about earlier, Alicia and that's kind of what I want to talk about today is your five by five kind of resource.

So I would love to dig into that [00:07:30] specifically. And what I think we'll do is. If anything comes up that I think relates specifically to aspects of like toddler breastfeeding I'd love to like kind of like insert that a little bit but just kind of like have a conversation around what is it that parents of toddlers can do?

What is the most essential small baby steps that they can be taking From the beginning, slowly over those toddler years, to set their child up for success. 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that starting in like, like little [00:08:00] kid, toddlerhood, like this is, this is the perfect time to set that foundation. So you're not having to backtrack.

Like just start fresh, like, and this is the optimal time to start having these conversations. The safety worksheet that I'm going over, it's, it's a free resource that I offer and you can get it from my website, but it's called the top five by five body safety. 

And do you want to just, do you have a specific URL that you can share with people right now so that they can grab it and they don't have to take notes during the podcast?

Yeah. Yeah. So it's my website. So [00:08:30] it's expert parenting. org and slash five by five should take you straight. Straight there. And 

number five, B Y number five. Okay. 

Yes, yes. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And I can provide like links and stuff too. If that's, if that's helpful, I'll be 

in the show notes. Definitely.

Yeah, 

absolutely. So yeah, so if you want to grab that and then you can follow along, you don't have to, you know, write everything down, but we'll just kind of dig into it a little bit deeper than it's just a one pager. So there's a lot more to it than just the few little sentences that are on there.[00:09:00] 

Yeah. 

 So in order to help keep your kiddos safe, the very first thing that you should be focusing on is teaching them the names of their body parts. So the actual words, you need to say the words. Some of us are uncomfortable with it, and if you are uncomfortable with it, practice on your own.

Like say it to yourself in the car, in the shower, whatever, just get used to your mouth forming those words so you can just say it. But what we're talking about here is going to be like either butt or bum, right? Anus, [00:09:30] urethra, breasts. Penis, Scrotum, Testicles, Vagina, Vulva, and Clitoris. Those are the words we need to be using, and those are the words that our kids need to be using when they're talking about their bodies.

And one of the Most important reasons for this is, well, there are a few, but for example, if your kid is ever injured or hurt and they go to the doctor, obviously, if they can explain specifically where they hurt, and this can be anything from like a diaper [00:10:00] rash, right? If they can specifically explain where they hurt and what hurts it's so much easier to treat them.

So if there's a difference between a diaper rash or like a UTI, you know, if they can tell you, obviously, if they can communicate it, obviously it's easier to treat. 

Yeah, just even on that note. Like, my daughter fell at the park and kind of, like, landed really hard on a bar, like, right between her legs.

And having had this, these conversations on these words was really helpful. She was able to tell me, [00:10:30] right, exactly what hurt. And you know, it was, it was, it was, It was really helpful. So yeah, on a really practical level. 

Right. And you know what? Like my daughter did the exact same thing at the park with a bunch of other parents around.

And when it happened, she just started screaming like, my vulva. Cool. Thanks. Embarrassing. But like, at least we know where you're hurt 

and 

you're using the right words. So I guess, you know, yay, parent win on that aspect. Yeah. But [00:11:00] really kids knowing. Actual names of their body parts is one of the biggest deterrents of child predators, for child predators.

So if there is somebody who's looking at possibly targeting your kid, the fact that they know what their body parts are called and they're using those words, really, that's really an indication to them that they have an open and ongoing [00:11:30] relationship and communication with a safe adult about their body.

And that is a big, like, that's obviously not what they're looking for. So just your child knowing those body parts can just straight up deter child predators. Now if your kid comes home, like, saying like, wee wee, or hoo ha, or whatever, you know, it's not necessarily that you need to freak out, like, not, but it is an invitation to sort of get an opportunity to just get curious and be like, oh, that's a funny word, where did you hear that?

Likely it's going [00:12:00] to be from the playground, right? You're like, oh yeah, that's, That is a funny word for that. What is it actually called? Okay, cool. Let's go around our business. You know, it's not a big deal, but just make sure they know what it actually is and what and using those most of the time.

Yeah. And that even breasts and nipples is part of that conversation as well. And so of course being as like you're breastfeeding a toddler and you're weaning. Yeah. It can be for some families it's uncomfortable to explicitly say like that is mom's breast. This is breast [00:12:30] milk. That is mom's nipple.

And so you can start there with those just being very explicit about about breast milk. That anatomy on yourself. 

And it's, 

it's a support your child too. And sometimes the fear that comes up that I notice with families around that is that their kids are going to say them in public and say, say these you know, words that might feel uncomfortable.

And I think it's valid to have that embarrassment or concern, but I think that it's also important to like question that and [00:13:00] check in with like, okay, so, so what, so what's going to happen if, if that does happen, right? Yeah. 

And I can tell you that exact thing happened with my daughter. I was at Target and my daughter informed the the cashier at Target that she has a And I don't, I mean, this was, 10 years ago or so, but like, yeah, like, I don't know.

I will never forget that moment because that was absolutely horrifying. And I'm sure that that target employee will never forget that moment, but Hey, like [00:13:30] it happened. And yeah, 

you just roll with it. Yeah. I mean, it can be a positive thing. Maybe that target employee was like, Oh wow. This kid like knows what's what like, not, not a shame.

Like that's awesome. Right. Thing to. Something that I know that you share and have said to me personally is that as adults, we're often sexualizing and like sensualizing for, for lack of a better word body parts and conversations about body and, and things that to [00:14:00] kids are pretty just matter of fact and neutral.

And for example, like the word clitoris can be like, like, it feels right, right. It feels something. I don't know. And. It doesn't have to be that when we're having these conversations. We don't have to make it. Oh, 

right. Absolutely. Like adults, and especially in society today, everything is sexualized.

So, and as adults, as adults, we sexualize everything. And you know what? Kids don't have that. They, toddlers don't do that. [00:14:30] If they're talking about body parts, if they're even for like, for like self touch and stuff and stuff for toddlers, when they're, when they're doing that, it's, It's more related to self soothing and it's not.

At all a sexual. And I think as adults, we just sex, we over sexualize everything. And we really need to get back into the, the frame of mind that this is, it's not sexual to a kid. Like it's, these are just body parts. This is just science. This is just, every mammal has [00:15:00] these, you know, this is just how it works.

And and it's really cool. Educating your kid on that is important, but it doesn't have to be anything about, like, actual sex or orgasms. You're not talking about that. 

Exactly. So just, it's no different than being like, here's your ear, here's your nose, here's your elbow, you know, like, here's your vulva.

It doesn't have to be. It's that neutral. Other parts of the body could be used for sexual pleasure too. So it's not like we don't have any like [00:15:30] shame about being like, this is your hand and these are your fingers, right? So it is something that we get hung up on that maybe you know, if we look at it a little bit more neutrally and rationally, it's not, it's not as scary as we 

even when you're doing like head, shoulders, knees, and toes, right?

By omitting the parts, like that itself is sort of sending a message that we don't talk about those. Those are shameful. Those are secret. Those are hush hush. We don't want to talk about that. So, by making sure that you are [00:16:00] including all of the body parts when you're talking and teaching your kid about the body, just lets them know that it's just a body part, and it doesn't need to be a secret or shameful body part.

So. Yeah, it's really important to make sure you are including those, and just the fact that you're not could be sending a message that you don't want your kid to have. Yeah. Okay, sorry, I think we just, we went off a little bit. So, the second all right the second safety rule is about consent. And obviously just teaching your child at a very young [00:16:30] age start, and then obviously this is not sexual consent that comes later.

But if you, if your child has a really strong foundation of what can body consent is sexual consent is going to come a lot easier to them. And I think especially for parents who are breastfeeding that's incredibly important to, or I guess it is incredibly important but I think it's also gives gives you an opportunity that other parents don't necessarily have to practice that with your kiddo.

You [00:17:00] know? To be like, this is, this is great. Like, not that I'm ever going to really deny you access, but, or maybe I am, but but this is my body and, and like, 

I have a, yeah, I have a boundaries communication guide that you can get at my website, ownyourparentingstory. com slash guide. And I talk about, you know, The importance of consistency around boundaries, but not consistency in the sense of your yes is always has to be the same.

Yes. Like, and the no always has to be the same. [00:17:30] No. So it's like, we're never going to do actually the consistency. And I think that this is the important, and it kind of goes into the next, the next step of, of the five by five as well, is that when it's a no for you, then And you are breastfeeding anyways, and that no is a no or whatever it is, that's an inconsistency.

That's when your internal intuition, what you, what is good for you and not good for you in that moment, what your yes and your no are, are not [00:18:00] consistent with your behaviors and with your actions. And so a lot of times this comes with clarity. This is like a really big, topic around breastfeeding. It's something that sometimes it takes parents months of coaching and support to kind of like work through.

So I don't, I'm not trying to insinuate that this is like a simple like thing either, but when we're talking about consent, it is an opportunity to to model that for your kids. And it's okay if, if you're struggling with that, I do have that guy that can kind of like get you started, but it is, it's just that simple of like, [00:18:30] this is okay with me and this isn't okay with me.

And, and then your kids are going to have the feelings that they may or may not have about that. Right. And exactly. And through that afterwards, 

right. And that consent is not a blanket policy. It's not like consent the first time means that it's consent the second time, or even that, like, If you're, if you're continuing to play or tickle or whatever, that consent, if you have consent, that it continues, like you should constantly be checking in with your body.

You should constantly be checking in on is this still okay? And [00:19:00] you can stay, you can say, stop. You can say, I don't want to do this anymore. And I think that the most important thing we can do as parents to really drill in consent with our children is model it for them and respect their consent.

Respect their decisions on consent as well. 

Yeah. That's a big part when you're around even breastfeeding boundaries, but in general too. Yeah. If you are modeling, Oh, it looks like this is a no for you right now. Is that what that's a no? Okay. I understand. Like I, I, I asked my kids [00:19:30] before that I give them a kiss on the cheek, like 90 percent of the time it's habit for me.

And I will tell you, I am darn disappointed sometimes when they say, no, they said no. 

Right. And that's what's honoring that is so, it, it tells them that you're backing them up, that you are on their side, that they truly have autonomy over their body. 

Yeah. And it makes that connection to like, Oh, mommy said, no, that when it's a stop or when it's a no, like that's mommy's [00:20:00] body and her feelings too.

And it's not always perfect and easy. And there's a lot. More to it, especially when we're talking about little kids that might need support with co regulation and they might need other things that are going on. And there might be reasons that it's a no for you that aren't really about breastfeeding.

And that might be an opportunity to work through those things too. Right? Like there's, there's, it opens that up. But on the surface level, having those conversations and just teaching that simple, like a yes is a yes and a no is a no and a stop is a stop. Yeah, it's a tune up for. [00:20:30] All the good things.

Right. And I love that you include body language too. Cause like, it's not just about words. 

Right. 

We need to be looking at body language as well. But yeah, I think that, yeah. Start early. Start early. Talk often. Do it a lot. And you'll be good. 

Yeah. And I think that goes right into number three. 

Yes. So, so the third one is, it talks about icky feelings.

And basically, this is like a kid friendly way of talking about their intuition, their their [00:21:00] gut feelings, like following their own internal guidance, right? And this is super duper important and it's probably one of the hardest things to, to teach but once you kind of get the hang of it and you really back your kid up, it's When they say that they may be having an icky feeling and you believe them and you listen to them it's one of the most important things that you can teach any human and get starting young is like the [00:21:30] best way to make sure that it is instilled in them for the rest of their life.

But really it's just like teaching them to check in with their bodies. If they, if they're feeling like something's kind of like, ooh, if they get that kind of like, oh or icky or yucky kind of feeling some kids kind of get it in their tummy, it makes their tummy kind of hurt or like their brain kind of, or like their, their head sort of makes like a stop, like, ooh, I don't know about that, like a pause moment.

That, those are the ones that you want to like jump on and be like, ooh, are you, how are you [00:22:00] feeling? Like, do you feel comfortable with this? Do you not feel comfortable? Is that kind of like an oh, icky feeling? And what their job is, as soon as they feel that, is to stop what they're doing and tell a trusted adult, and talk to an adult.

And it's super important that the adult takes them seriously, right? Like, if your kid has icky feelings about picking up their toys, you know, then you can address that. You can address that at the time, but you need to actually get down on their level, look [00:22:30] at them in the eye, ask them about it, talk to them about it, and then let them know, okay, you know what?

I will keep a really close eye on you when you're having a play date with John, Johnny, or whatever. Or, okay, you know what, like, you don't feel comfortable, let's go to the other side of the playground, you know, and then also give examples of your own icky feelings, like, if you're just like, ooh, you know what, like, that guy over there is making me a little uncomfortable, kind of give me an icky feeling, let's go around this way instead.

And just sort of like talk through it with [00:23:00] your kid. That's the best way is it's an example for them. I 

actually think that like when you mentioned like, oh, he has, they have an icky feeling around toys, picking up toys. And, but I think that those are actually really great opportunities because I deeply believe that our kids do like better when, when they can write or if they can.

And so that's actually an opportunity. It's like, there's something going on to suggest that it's nothing is. Like, I don't think that that's beneficial or supportive. It doesn't mean that we have to be like, Oh, you had an icky feeling about not picking up [00:23:30] your picking up your toys. Well, then you never have to pick up your toys.

Right, right. Get 

down on their level and say, you know what? I get icky feelings about picking up my stuff when there's too many things on the ground, when I'm hungry, when I'm thirsty, if I'm tired, and sometimes those picking up the toys can wait. Sometimes I just need a little help, somebody to do it with me.

And I'm talking literally about picking up, you know, My own stuff sometimes, you know, like doing my own dishes. Like sometimes I need to check in with myself and I think that it's helpful [00:24:00] too. And I think that this is where the body safety kind of conversations can just go way beyond sexuality as well.

Like if my kids are climbing outside, they get to the top of a slide. At a park. 

And 

they get the too high for me, I don't want to go down, right? Like, it's checking in, or maybe it's too high for me. I'm like, oh, you're too high, right? Like, I get to have that conversation. I'm like, hey, hey guys, like, how are you feeling in your body right now?

Or maybe they're eating and they have two bites of food and they're like up and like playing and I'm like, [00:24:30] what's going on, right? I started really young with my kids and Depending on the day, it's not like this is all the time, but they will stop and literally, like, close their eyes, put a hand on their belly, take a deep breath, like, and I'm like, hey, how full is your tummy right now?

Does it need more food? What are you feeling? Right? Like, and it's like, oh, yeah, I am hungry. Or sometimes they're like, nope, not hungry. But that's all that, like, interoception that we're like supporting them to like get more in tune with the sensations that are inside their body, which is exactly how they [00:25:00] develop and strengthen that skill of intuition.

Right. And noticing that. 

Yeah. And I love, love the example of like what you just said about like, yeah, I get icky feelings to having to clean up my stuff, you know, like it's, I get it, you know, let's, let's figure out what the situation is. And I mean, that's, that is a hundred percent, not letting them get away with not picking up their toys, but validating their feelings and then letting them know, like you validated their feelings and they have to pick up toys.

Their toys. Or, and finding out really [00:25:30] what's going 

on. Yeah, and, and the skill of even like, how can we do that in a way that's going to feel good for you? Like, that's not going to feel like torture. Can we make it a game? Can we do, which is literally like, that's a life skill, right? Like, oh, this thing needs to be done.

Okay, cool. Like, How can we problem solve? How can we be creative about this? How can we innovate? How can we like, what do I need? What do you need? How can we get these things done? Right? Like it's collaborative. It's problem solving. And I've had it with my kids where if it was a toy picking up example, sometimes there's a little bit [00:26:00] of a compromise.

Like, Oh, you still, the reason you didn't want to pick that up is that you're still playing with all those Legos. Okay. Awesome. But they're all over the floor. So what are we going to do about that? Right? Like, and every time I, in my head have the thought like, Oh, my kids are just being difficult. I'm humbled.

My kids are a lot smarter and their desires and their motivations are a lot more pure than my brain jumps to immediately. And oftentimes what's going on when we like take a little bit of a deeper [00:26:30] look, it's like, Oh, okay. That makes sense. And to 

be honest, this is great practice for us as adults too, great communication skills with anybody, not just your kids.

Just take a second. Let's find out what's going on here. Ask questions, be curious. 

That's so important too is that like, and then you, it doesn't mean if your kid has an icky feeling, doesn't mean they don't have to do the thing, you know, but it does, it can mean that you understand, you hear them, you know, they have an icky feeling and [00:27:00] you say, look, you know what, like, this is something that sometimes we have to do uncomfortable things, but I'm going to be right here and I'm going to be really paying attention and watching you.

And I'm going to make sure that you're okay. Like it's my job to keep you safe. I'm going to make sure that you're safe. 

Yeah. And we still have to do 

the thing. 

 That's tricky stuff they're going to have to navigate on their own someday too.

So no, this isn't always just like cut and dry, simple stuff, but there are gray areas and this is, this is what we do as parents. Like we're teaching them to do life. Right. So. [00:27:30] Yeah, so, so moving forward. So the fourth one the fourth safety rule is that is around secrets. And what I would 100 percent recommend is that there is always a household or family rule that we don't keep secrets, like nobody, nobody in this house keeps secrets because there should absolutely be a no reason, especially as a toddler, that your child should keep a secret from you.[00:28:00] 

Nobody should ask your child to keep a secret from you. Especially, especially, especially if it comes to their bodies, right? Like that's just, that's just a no go. Sorry. No secrets about that. And I know that there, I've had some little bit of pushback about what secrets truly are.

So in order to sort of clarify, secrets are not the same thing as privacy, right? People can have privacy, you know, like sometimes you need your privacy in the bathroom, privacy in the bedroom when you're changing clothes, privacy when you're [00:28:30] having a hard time. So just because you're behind a closed door doesn't mean you're doing something secretive, it's just privacy and that it doesn't mean you're Secret and privacy are different.

And then also secrets when it comes to like Christmas or birthdays or whatever, any sort of holiday that there's a gift giving. You don't want your kids saying, I don't keep secrets. Here's what you're getting. Right. But those are surprises and surprises. are always fun and always revealed.

There's a time limit [00:29:00] on surprises, right? It's like this is going to be revealed at this time and it's exciting and it's fun. We love surprises so we need to keep this a surprise for this person. There's a distinction and secrets, because secrets tend to be shameful.

There's things that like give you the icky feeling. There are things that are like kept in the dark and Again, private parts are not secret parts. They're just private. So there's no sense of shame around private parts because they're not secret. [00:29:30] 

Right. Yeah. I love that. So what I'm hearing is like the no, no secrets is a really great family rule to have.

And there's this distinction between privacy and surprises and it's worked super well. I implemented that when my kids were very young and it's never been an issue. Like anytime I have the only times where it's become any kind of thing is if my kids are playing with other kids who use the word secret at some point and then my kids are like, they wanted to keep a secret.

Right. And you know, I can explain [00:30:00] that different families have different rules. We don't keep secrets in our family. 

Right. And you could even say like, we don't keep secrets. Like, and maybe they'll tell you what the secret was and be like, for telling me. Because you know, we don't keep secrets, but, and, you know, I appreciate you.

Telling me because that's an important rule. But yeah, the, the, we don't keep secrets. And I don't even, I mean, if your, if their kid is going to tell another kid, I don't keep secrets. Yeah. That kid's going to stop like trying to give them secrets. Right. And this is huge for deterring predators as well, [00:30:30] because they start with like little tiny harmless secrets with your kid to see if your kid is slipping those secrets to you.

See if your kid is talking to you and telling you these things. And then those secrets just get a little bit bigger and bigger and more harmful and more harmful and Anyway, so just the whole Tlingit rule, we don't keep secrets. That's not a thing. The only, there was one situation where I had somebody ask, okay, like we just had a family member who is, who's going to be transitioning.[00:31:00] 

And like, how do I tell my kid? That's not a surprise, necessarily. We don't know when that family member is going to be, you know, like, coming out and telling other people. And so how do we keep our, our kiddo from telling everybody? And, and truly, I think that you can just kind of take that one back to it's private.

It's private to that person and it's their story. That's their story to tell. And sometimes our stories are private to ourselves and to other people. And [00:31:30] so like, if you know something about somebody and it's their story, then that's private to them. And they need to be the one to tell that story, not you.

Yeah, I think that that's nice, because then privacy can really be about, it's like one person, one person. It's not, it doesn't involve multiple people. And then if you know something, it's like, well, it does, like, literally doesn't involve me at all. Right? Like, it's not private to the other person. Right?

Like, it's not about me. So that, I understand that that could still be like, a little bit tricky to navigate and the [00:32:00] surprises feel very, like, cut and dry around. This is a surprise where privacy perhaps has more nuance. But I think that That makes sense. And I think, and also feel that sense of privacy.

Like they, they know when they need privacy, right? Like it's, it's common knowledge to know are like, you know, commonly said when kids are like potty training that they'll start to like, you know, when they're, when they're pooping, they'll like go hide in a corner, right? It's kind of like an eight to us to have those moments of privacy.

So I think that that's something that kids can understand too, in that way. [00:32:30] 

Yeah, and I think it's like, especially at this age that we're talking about, like, they're, if your child knows something private about somebody else at this age, they should probably be sharing that with you, you know, and then you can help determine this is a private thing to them, they need to, you know, be the one to tell the story or, you know, If you do need to intervene, maybe that, you know, maybe you do need to intervene, but at this age, yeah, it's easier, I think, than it is gonna, I mean, it gets, it gets harder, it gets more, like, the mud, the water is getting [00:33:00] muddier as they get older, but at this age, just No secrets, privacy, surprises.

That's the rule. 

Yeah. And surprises, I love when you said like they have a timeline, like there's a, there's a deadline on a surprise and it's fun. They're fun and they have a deadline. So those are surprises. I love that. 

Okay. So the very last one is all about tricky people. And I know most of, well, I'm sure all of us know about Stranger Danger and we all probably grew up with Stranger Danger.

But when it [00:33:30] comes to child sexual abuse, 93 percent of child sexual abusers are people that we know and that we bring into our homes and that we trust with our kids. So it's not it's not, it's not that stranger driving through your street really slowly in a white van that's going to snatch up your kid.

Like that's not the problem. And it's going to be a lot more likely that your kid is going to get lost. You know, at a supermarket, at the mall, or wherever, at a park, and they are going to need to ask a [00:34:00] stranger for help. And if you have ingrained in them that all strangers are scary, they are going to be terrified when they're, they look around, you're not there, and they're surrounded by strangers.

Right? Danger everywhere. 

Like, could you imagine? 

So, right. So, right. So anyway, so it's so much more likely they're going to need to ask a stranger for help than a stranger's actually going to cause them like this significant danger that we're all really concerned about. Because 

there's typically grooming [00:34:30] involved with sexuality which then they wouldn't be a stranger.

Exactly. Exactly. And so when, so instead of using stranger danger, we use tricky people. Like we talk about tricky people and a tricky person is anybody, anybody, anybody who tries to get them to break a safety rule for any reason. And their, their job. is to tell a safe adult anytime somebody tries to trick them or talk them into breaking a safety [00:35:00] rule.

And if that, and here's the, here's the, here's the tricky thing on that, is that if that tricky person is a safe adult, they need to tell another safe adult. And so between two or more, safe adults that, you know, obviously pretty secure that your child's going to be watched after and safe, but they need to know that even a safe adult breaking a safety rule, you can tell another safe adult.

And then, and you just kind of take it as, as it happens. So like, you know, if anybody's trying to get them to break a safety rule, maybe [00:35:30] it's, you know, Kids, especially little kids, like to explore each other's bodies. And that's something that we need to talk about and be like, Okay, this is, you know, private parts and all that.

But 

Well, when we're talking about safety too, like that, For me and my kids, it was literally like, like, we don't want to hurt each other, like physically. There's like germs and that kind of stuff. So we just need to keep everybody healthy and safe. It doesn't always have to be, again, as we adults do, like sexualizing every day either, right?

Most of the 

time, yeah, it's not, it's not going to be anything, but you know. [00:36:00] It's good to know.

It's good to know that for sure. Yeah, so, if you, if your kiddo, so these are the top five by five, so what your child should know by age five, if your kid can say, I know my body, I know consent, I trust my icky feelings, I don't keep secrets, and I watch for tricky people, like, that is gonna be like, so, and it just, it really Yeah.

Yeah. I promise you will feel so much better about letting your kid out, whether they're going to preschool or kindergarten for the first [00:36:30] time whether they're going to a camp, whether they're going to grandma's house for a sleepover for the first time, or whatever, like, we can't always be there to watch our kids.

And if they know these rules, and they, you see that they're adhering to them all the time, like, huge peace of mind. You know. 

And, and then you have, you have a language to, to, to communicate with your kids around these things. So, right. And 

you've already established a line of communication around those things.

You've already established like, Hey, when I pick you up from a play date, these are the questions we're going to ask. So maybe during the [00:37:00] play date, they're like, Oh, my mom's going to ask about that. You know? Like, and that's great. That's, that's perfect. That's what you want. And like, if it's. I mean, 99 percent of the time, this is going to be totally innocent stuff.

But guess what? It's a great parenting opportunity to tune in with your kid and like, build those, those bonds, those communication bonds, and let them know, like you are a safe space and you can hold all of the crazy. And you're not going to be mad. You're not going to flip out. You're not going to freak out.

Like. Starting [00:37:30] those trust bonds early is going to help phenomenally help you down the road. 

There's opportunity to talk about fun things in that too. It's just the same. Like it's, they all come together. And I mean, when we're talking about supporting emotional intelligence and all that kind of stuff, we get to help them process their feelings a little bit too, when that happens, because yeah, like, Oh, it makes sense of that.

And it doesn't have to be about sexuality, these, but. Your body is the thing that's feeling the emotions when you have [00:38:00] emotions and some body safety like they're, they're so interconnected. And I think that that's You know, as much as, like we talked about at the beginning, we might have discomfort around these things, and we might sexualize them, and we might make it all about the scariest things that we can think in our brains, and the moments we've had our own confusion, and our own doubt, and our own, you know, navigating really hard topics, all of that gets mixed up, but really what we're talking about is like, your child's body, which they already have.

They already have that body. And so we're supporting [00:38:30] them to just be like, this is part of who you are. And this is like being a human in the world. 

Yes. Like our job is to teach our children, right? We don't ask before we teach them the ABCs or how to count. Like we don't ask, Hey, do you want to learn how to do long division before we start teaching them how to count?

Like this is stuff, this is their body. Like it's like any other educational piece. We're responsible for educating our kids. And this is a piece of that. And it's just so happens that it is a really easy [00:39:00] opportunity to teach them about their body and all these other, you know, build these connections and talk about emotions and help them like really tune into their own intuition and bodies like this.

It's just a perfect opportunity. So just throw it all together. With everything else we do as parents. 

Yeah. And modeling is such an important way of doing that too. Cause I like like Dr. Peter Gray talks about education is a cultural transmission. And so I think that when we're talking about this as like our culture that we're, we're like cultivating for [00:39:30] ourselves that we know our bodies, cause this is.

Like, you know, work where I'm doing it as an adult to, like, strengthen these things and become more aware of these things, right? So, as you're doing that, that, you will be teaching your child that, right? Like, it's going to flow out of that. And there are moments where it feels like, okay, I gotta cross this bridge that's in front of me.

And there's this opportunity and, all right, we're going in. But a lot of it, it doesn't even need to be as like, I don't know, as formulaic or something, in that way of like, [00:40:00] oh, okay, now we have to like, now I need to teach them these things. When it is part of us too, it flows a lot more naturally and there's opportunities and your kids ask the questions and the moments come up where these things can be taught.

And you have this handy dandy lovely checklist that you can go through and make sure that you're on your way. 

Right, right. And I think, like, as you kind of just keep it in your, in, like, look at it and think about it, you're gonna, opportunities, they will just pop up out of nowhere. And you'll just be like, oh.

Let's talk about that. Oh, let's talk about that. I mean, just like any other [00:40:30] parenting thing, like as opportunities come up, seize them. 

Yeah. Oh, I love it. Well, it was so wonderful having you on the podcast today, Alicia. Oh my gosh, 

I really appreciate you letting me just like talk about sex. This is my favorite thing.

Thank you for giving me the space to do this. Is 

there any final thoughts or anything that you want to share as we're wrapping up here? 

No, not necessarily. So my website again is sexpertparenting. org and you can find this checklist at that website [00:41:00] slash five by five, the number five by the number five.

And yeah, you can also go to my website and over on contact and I would love to chat with people who have questions or if anything kind of comes up on how to discuss these, I'm, you Totally an open book. Would love to chat with people to help implement these safety rules. 

Awesome. Thank you so much for being on today.

Thank you. Bye